Finnish language

Can any of you lovely Finnish people here on board help me [and others] with the difficult task of getting to understand your language a little bit? :] Just now I ran into something that really confused me:

I was browsing through the "Olla" wicki page and there I saw the following example:

"Rakkautta ei ole (olemassa). - Love doesn't exist."

I just checked in the dictionary and got the following definitions for love:

•lempi
•rakastaa [that's the verb, right?]
•rakkaus

So, what is this rakkautta then? :S .. and what is olemassa? I thought that you put -ssa or -ssä at the end of a word when the meaning is "In" or "At"?

*Edit: and one more question: How would you say "Are you Finnish" in Finnish? Would it be Oletteko Suomalainen and Oletko Suomalainen? [+ are nationalities capitalized? ]

Kiitos! :]

"Oletteko suomalainen" is a polite way to ask from a strange person in European countries, where people say sometimes "you" in plural, when they don't know the person.

"Oletteko suomalaisia" is "are you finnish" in plural, when there are many finnish people and you ask from all of that group at one time "Are you finnish?"

"Oletko suomalainen" is asked from one person and means "Are you finnish".

"Rakkautta": "there is no love" "Ei ole rakkautta", where the word "rakkautta" becomes from word "rakkaus" (nominative) and in this sentence is not in nominative case, but it is in partitive case.

I don't know, if this helps to understand a little better, but i give you link, where it is explained: http://www.peda.net/veraja/kittila/y...eli/sijamuodot

i hope, I got it right, as I am not Finnish myself either Our member called Ronya may look here and say her final word...

Omg, lollipop, you think that i know something about this?

okay,okay, i think you got this one right, so i'm not adding anything

Thank you! :]]

So ... do you not use the polite form in Finalnd?

And thank you for the link. Unfortunately it's all in Finnish so I kind of struglle to understand, but I searched for "cases in the Finnish language" and found and English article :]

The polite form generally is used when you talk to a stranger, or in like.. well in situations where you have to be polite..
Usually you use the polite form (you in plural), for example, when young people talk to elders.. Like; 'Olkaa hyvä' (you in plural) , not 'Ole hyvä' (you..well.. like one ) Both would be translated; You're welcome..

I hope this made even some sense.. ^^

Mhm, I get it :]] Kiitoksia

i'm gonna put the basic here though i'm not finnish .if there is a mistake somebody will correct me

Olla = the verb to be

Singular
(minä) olen I am | (minä) en ole I'm not
(sinä) olet You are | (sinä) et ole You aren't
hän on He/She is | hän ei ole He/She isn't


Plural
(me) olemme We are | (me) emme ole We aren't
(te,Te) olette You are | (te,Te) ette ole You aren't
he ovat They are | he eivät ole They aren't

*It's not necessary to use the pronouns in the brackets.U can say just Olen (I'm) or Olet (You are).U can't omit Hän !!!!

This is my table that i had to do when i began to study finnish
http://i37.tinypic.com/r7lzdw.jpg


Consonant gradation: the following letters or group of them transform to other letters when they are in a case and at the end of the word.

kk-k
pp-p
tt-t
mp-mm
nt-nn
nk-ng
p-v
t-d
lt-ll
rt-rr
k- /

kaupunki (city) - kaupungissa (in the city)
Helsinki - Helsingissa (in Helsinki)
pöytä (table) - pöydällä (on the table)
kauppa (shop) - kaupassa (in the shop)
matto (carpet) - matolla (on the carpet)
kirkko (church) - kirkossa (in the church)
Turku - Turussa (in Turku)


Verbs - there are 6 types of verbs

Type 1 (Vowel + -a/-ä) The idea is to remove that -a/-ä in the end
Example: ASUA - LIVE

Minä asun
Sinä asut
Hän asuu (double last vowel)
Me asumme
Te asutte
He asuvat

Example: TIETÄÄ - KNOW
remove the A at the end -> TIETÄ.. but we have "lonely t" in the last syllable ,therefore it T goes into D -> TIEDÄ...

Minä tiedän
Sinä tiedät
Hän tietää (when we double the last vowel,it closes the syllable and there is no consonant)
Me tiedämme
Te tiedätte
He tietävät (-vAt doesn't change the vowels)


Type 2 (Long vowels or diphthongs + -da/-dä) The idea is to remove the verb ending and to put the personal one

Example: SYÖDÄ - EAT

Minä syön
Sinä syöt
Hän syö (don't add anything here)
Me syömme
Te syötte
He syövät

Example JUODA - DRINK


Positive
Minä juon..........Minä en juo
Sinä juot...........Sinä et juo
Hän juo.............Hän ei juo
Me juomme......Me emme juo
Te juotte..........Te ette juo
He juovat..........He eivät juo


Type 3 Verbs ending in L + -la/-lä | N + -na/-nä | R + -ra/-rä | S + -ta/-tä
The idea again is to remove the verb ending,then to add one "e" and then the personal ending

3.1 LUULLA - THINK,SUPPOSE,GUESS
luulla - lulle-

Minä luulen
Sinä luulet
Hän luulee
Me luulemme
Te luulette
He luulevat¨

3.2 PANNA - PUT
panna - pane-¨

Minä panen
Sinä panet
Hän panee
Me panemme
Te panette
He panevat

3.3 PURRA - BITE
purra - pure-

Minä puren
Sinä puret
Hän puree
Me puremme
Te purette
He purevat

3.4 NOUSTA - RISE,STAND
nousta - nouse-

Minä nousen
Sinä nouset
Hän nousee
Me nousemme
Te nousette
He nousevat


Type 4 (Vowel + -ta/-tä) The idea is to remove the verb ending -tA and to put one "a"
Important !!! This rule doesn't work with the vowels I and E

Example: HALUTA - WANT
haluta - halua-

Minä haluan
Sinä haluat
Hän haluaa (it doesn't matter that there could be 10 vowels one after another)
Me haluamme
Te haluatte
He haluavat

Example OSATA - CAN
osata - osaa-

Minä osaan
Sinä osaat
Hän osaa (well even for Finns 3 same latters in a row are much,so don't put anything)
Me osaamme
Te osaatte
He osaavat

Type 5 (I + -ta/-tä)
Here we should remove only the final -A- and to add -SE-

Example: TARVITA - NEED
so here we go: tarvita -> tarvit + se -> tarvitse-

Minä tarvitsen
Sinä tarvitset
Hän tarvitsee
Me tarvitsemme
Te tarvitsette
He tarvitsevat

Example VALITA - CHOOSE
valita - valitse-

Minä valitsen
Sinä valitset
Hän valitsee
Me valitsemme
Te valitsette
He valitsevat


Type 6 (E + -ta/-tä)
Here we should remove -A- at the and and change the -T- to -NE- and remember to do BACK consonant gradation!!

Example: PAETA - RUN AWAY,ESCAPE
It goes like this: paeta -> remove the a -> paet ,so here we have to change T also we made the syllable open (or sth like this ) and we have to add the missing consonant -> paKene-

Minä pakenen
Sinä pakenet
Hän pakenee
Me pakenemme
Te pakenette
He pakenevat

I'm doin' some Finnish grammar revision before starting the next level So decided to write some simple things here (much more simple than my previous post)

Some finnish phrases and common sentences:

Terve - Hello!
Hei - Hi
Moi , Moikka - Hi/Bye
Hei Hei - Bye
Hyvää huomenta! - Good morning!
Hyvää iltaa! - Good evening!
Hyvää yötä! - Good night!
Tervetuloa! - Welcome
Näkemiin! - Goodbye!
Mitä kuuluu? - What's up?
Hyvä - Good
Hyvästi - Goodbye
Kiitos - Thanks
Kiitos paljon = Paljon kiitoksia - Thank you very much!
Ole hyvä - You'r welcome! Olkaa hyvä is the polite form!
Ei(pä) kestä - You'r welcome! ("for nothing",sth like this)
Anteeksi - Excuse me! / Sorry

and when it's about spoken finnish *puhekieli* - everything is different

Originally Posted by lollipop

"Rakkautta": "there is no love" "Ei ole rakkautta", where the word "rakkautta" becomes from word "rakkaus" (nominative) and in this sentence is not in nominative case, but it is in partitive case.

I don't know, if this helps to understand a little better, but i give you link, where it is explained: http://www.peda.net/veraja/kittila/y...eli/sijamuodot

I kinda wanted to feel like I was fifteen and in school again, so I took the table on the linked page and inflicted 'rakkaus' in all the cases . This is the trouble with Finnish; there are a bazillion forms of everything. If it makes any student feel any better, Hungarian is somewhat worse.

case / singular / plural / approx. meaning

NOMINATIIVI / rakkaus / rakkaudet / love
GENETIIVI / rakkauden / rakkauksien / of love, love's
PARTITIIVI / rakkautta / rakkauksia /
ESSIIVI / rakkautena / rakkauksina / as love
TRANSLATIIVI / rakkaudeksi / rakkauksiksi / (change) into love
INESSIIVI / rakkaudessa / rakkauksissa / in(side) love
ELATIIVI / rakkaudesta / rakkauksista / from, out of love
ILLATIIVI / rakkauteen / rakkauksiin / into love
ADESSIIVI / rakkaudella / rakkauksilla / on love
ABLATIIVI / rakkaudelta / rakkauksilta / from love
ALLATIIVI / rakkaudelle / rakkauksille / onto love
ABESSIIVI / rakkaudetta / rakkauksitta / without love
KOMITATIIVI / rakkauksineen / rakkauksineen / with one's love *
INSTRUKTIIVI / rakkauksin / rakkauksin / using love

(*) includes a possessive suffix in the appropriate person,
e.g. rakkauksineni, rakkauksinesi, rakkauksineen (1st, 2nd and 3rd person)

The last two are rarely used and they kinda only make sense with some words. Comitative (if that's the term?) looks the same in singular and plural and instructive (?) does not seem to have a singular (I've forgotten my grammar).

Ismo Alanko has a song titled Rakkaus on ruma sana (Love is an ugly word), meaning that it literally sounds bad in Finnish. I tend to agree with him after this excercise. Alanko's lyrics go

Rakkaus on ruma sana // love is an ugly word
Kaipaus soi kauniinpana // longing rings more beautiful
Rakkaus on ruma sana // love is an ugly word
Runojen raiskaus // the raping of poems

maybe we should continue this topic?

wow, now i'm really glad thah finnish is my native..
i have never realized how complicated all those rules really are, or at least they seem quite complex to me.

but i trust you'll figure it out
good luck everyone

don't know if this is the right place to post this, but can some finish native please translate this for me? >Luulen että sun onnittelut eivät oo rehellisiä<
google translate fails at translating it correctly.
thanks in advance!

umm..
"Luulen että sun onnittelut eivät oo rehellisiä" (this one is in spoken language)
i think your gonrtatulations are not honest.

maybe google translator couldn't translate this because there are such a words like "sun" which is chatty form for "sinun"=yours and "oo"="ole". and whole sentence itself is not literally correct yet most of the finns would rather say that way than "luulen että sinun onnittelusi eivät ole rehellisiä" which is the correct form.

but you could use that one and everybody believe you're very familiar with finnish language

Originally Posted by PollyBG

I'm doin' some Finnish grammar revision before starting the next level So decided to write some simple things here (much more simple than my previous post)

Some finnish phrases and common sentences:

Terve - Hello!
Hei - Hi
Moi , Moikka - Hi/Bye
Hei Hei - Bye
Hyvää huomenta! - Good morning!
Hyvää iltaa! - Good evening!
Hyvää yötä! - Good night!
Tervetuloa! - Welcome
Näkemiin! - Goodbye!
Mitä kuuluu? - What's up?
Hyvä - Good
Hyvästi - Goodbye
Kiitos - Thanks
Kiitos paljon = Paljon kiitoksia - Thank you very much!
Ole hyvä - You'r welcome! Olkaa hyvä is the polite form!
Ei(pä) kestä - You'r welcome! ("for nothing",sth like this)
Anteeksi - Excuse me! / Sorry

and when it's about spoken finnish *puhekieli* - everything is different

You write in your signature "Mun sydän on Suomessa". Basically that is simplified Finnish and wrong as it correctly should be "Minun sydämeeni on Suomessa"
The Finnish language, like other languages is following the English example of simplified use of grammar.
To some that's horrifying, as it makes a rich language poorer, though easier to learn.
So, pick your choice! I am Dutch, by the way, hahaha:P:P:P

uhh i know that if i replace minun with mun there is no need to add the suffix for possession *-ni* and that happens only in spoken language ..but look i will take the note and correct it

Hey guys, I have a question about one thing: Onko se "tämä on tosi hyvä biisi" vai "tämä on totta hyvää biisiä"? :] Any help? :}

lopatka, it is "tämä on tosi hyvä biisi" : D Or actually you could also say "tämä on todella hyvä biisi/todellakin hyvä biisi"

Ok, kiitos! :]]

I need some phrases to translate, so I'm asking for help!

1. You're such a pervert.
2. I love you more and more everyday.
3. It's unfair how perfect you are.
4. I can't wait to come visit you.
5. You're so pretty, it hurts to look at you.
6. I think we should make out.
7. I want to hug you so badly.
8. You'll never know how much you mean to me.
9. I'm glad I have you in my life.
10. You're adorable.

Thank you!

Originally Posted by katse

I need some phrases to translate, so I'm asking for help!

1. You're such a pervert.
2. I love you more and more everyday.
3. It's unfair how perfect you are.
4. I can't wait to come visit you.
5. You're so pretty, it hurts to look at you.
6. I think we should make out.
7. I want to hug you so badly.
8. You'll never know how much you mean to me.
9. I'm glad I have you in my life.
10. You're adorable.

Thank you!

Katse! In what language do you want them???